Warbirds Of Prey
May 23, 2013, 04:35:00 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home   Forum   Help Calendar Login Register  
Linked Events
  • Bomber Night: May 13, 2011
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: BN 05-13-11 - Porkhorovka  (Read 888 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
AJK
Group Captain
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,256


« on: May 11, 2011, 09:24:08 PM »


BOMBER NIGHT
Friday, May 13th 2011  - 22:00hrs Central US. (11:00pm Eastern US 4:00am GMT)
Server: ** Spits vs 109s ** ( 69.90.34.220:21010 )
Teamspeak Server IP= 69.90.34.220 Password = falcon9

MISSION: TB-3 Bomber Night:
Map:Porkhorovka
BLUE Markings:Hungary & Slovakia
  Bf-109E-4
  Avia B534
  Re-2000
  Cr42

RED Markings:USSR
  Escort:
  Mig-3
  I-153
  I-15bis
 Bomber:
  TB-3_4M-34R
 Target:
F5 [Porkhorovka]


--Mission Notes--
Based on the battles on the eastern front, this weeks BN will focus on the VVS efforts to hold the Axis from advancing.
**Read the mission brief for more info.  Good luck. **

Logged

I needed that wing..
Wailwulf
Group Captain
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 568


« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2011, 10:37:53 PM »

Come on Comrades!  We must defend the Fatherland against the Axis onslaught!


BN video of TB-3s from Sept 26, 2008 (a month before my first bomber night):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRvmKNN4qRw

AJK,

22:00 hours or 22:10 hours???
« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 10:42:37 PM by Wailwulf » Logged

-Wailwulf

When in doubt, CHARGE!  Just ask the Light Brigade.
=K39=Cocoa
K39 Squadron
Group Captain
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 335


« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2011, 12:12:28 AM »

Looks like a promising mission for this BN! Excellent video, I really like the March Cheesy.

let me add my 2 cents ...soul moving-heart breaking moral booster song to this BN:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA8G1rWrGt8&NR=1

See you Comrades on BN!
Logged

"The harder they come the harder they fall..."
wespe
Squadron Leader
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 149



« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2011, 03:51:21 AM »

For planning purposes, what are the available bomb load-outs and what is the location of the bomber airfield?
Logged
AJK
Group Captain
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,256


« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2011, 09:56:25 AM »

Wespe all info is in the mission brief. Join the group on ts as we will be taking off together. The route is easy. Due south.
If you want to lead the flight that would be great.
Logged

I needed that wing..
wespe
Squadron Leader
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 149



« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2011, 03:52:24 PM »

Yes, I know... all info is in the mission brief.  But it does me no good to have that data five minutes before flight time.

Months ago, before "real-life issues" or changing work schedules disrupted things, I used to fly these missions with a four or five man Independent Bomber Group.  Now, on Bomber Nights it's usually just me.  Either way, I still enjoy the planning exercise for each upcoming mission.

Location of bomber base:  
"But Wespe, if we broadcast the location of the bomber base... then the opposing fighters will know where we're coming from!"
 
Well, duh!  As soon as the mission starts, the opposition can see where all the bases are at.  And some enterprising hero might also take the 15 extra seconds to click on the various bases to see which one the bombers are coming from to further refine his direction to the action, so it should be no really big deal.

Posting the location of the bomber base when announcing the mission allows people to plan primary and secondary routes to the target and disseminate that info to all concerned.  What kind of info...?  Azimuths to ground references and turn points and flight times to same, speeds and rates of climb to reach desired altitudes dependent upon distance to target,  which angle to hit the target from to cause the most damage, etc.

  
Quote
The route is easy. Due south.

Yeah, if I want to fly directly into fighter opposition.  I usually try to avoid the Corridor of Death.

This would have been a "Due South" mission but was planned to strike from the side... avoiding the waiting fighters




"Sevastopol Bomber Night" would have been another relatively "Due South" mission but we by-passed the target far to the east, turned around out at sea and struck from the south... due to the orientation of the target and to avoid running head on into enemy fighters.




This is why it's nice to know just where it is we're flying from.


As for requesting the bomb load-out data:

Various bomb loads affect several aspects of manual bombing data:
First, let me start off by stating that the airspeed gauge in the cockpit is relatively unreliable.  If one is relying solely upon that, you could miss the target by as much as 200 meters.  Much more accurate to go by "throttle setting" to define your indicated/true airspeed.  Now, this might not be a big deal for those who just want to level bomb a city, but if you want to hit an oil refinery (and not the residential area next to it), accuracy is critical.  Same for hitting a bridge, or sinking a skinny destroyer from 5,000m.  

Here's a pic from working out the bombing data from another Bomber Night.



Different bomb loads affect air speed:
 The mission plan that was worked out called for dropping half the load over one target... flying to the next target and dropping the remaining bombs. The data provided allows to hit a 10m wide target from 5,000m (I use a Bf109 as a target)
 Once the first load is away, the plane now weighs 500kg less and the airspeed increases.  The second bomb drop required a different throttle setting to retain accuracy.

Different bomb loads affect sight angle:
The bomb sight in this sim is not independently mounted, but is firmly attached to the plane. What does this mean for bomb sight data based upon bomb load?  A plane carrying a 500kg bomb (all other data being accounted for) may have a bomb sight release angle of, let's say 40 degrees.  But, the same plane carrying a 1,000kg bomb struggles a little more trying to fly level and not drop in altitude.  It does this by assuming a slightly more "nose up" attitude.  And as the nose tilts upward... the bomb sight tilts upward... and a different bomb sight angle (or other compensations) is called for.

Different bomb loads (externally mounted) impact airspeed due to drag:  
In order to work out accurate bombing data, one needs to know what the true airspeed is.  Let's say that two planes are both carrying a 1,000kg load externally.  One plane has a single 1,000kg bomb and the other has 2ea 500kg bombs slung underneath.  The plane with the two bombs presents more of a frontal aspect to the oncoming air, causing more drag and reducing the aircraft's speed.  Different bombing data needs to be worked out to compensate for this.  



So yeah...  It's nice to know ahead of time where we're taking off from and how we plan to get back.
As for the reason behind requesting what the available bomb payload will be...    different loads require trial and error testing to work out data over a range of altitudes.    
Just like for this upcoming mission. If I don't know what the load-outs will be...  I can't figure out air speeds.    There's quite a bit of difference in weight between a load of 4xFAB-1000 + 14xFAB-50 (4,700) and a load of 4xFAB-500 + 2xFAB-250 (2,500) and it all needs to be figured in.  



      
    







  



  
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 06:21:35 PM by wespe » Logged
Kibbey
Group Captain
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 338

Flies as "CH3"


« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2011, 04:13:09 PM »

Wow.  I guess I have to acknowledge that I just PLAY at being a high altitude bomber pilot.  Wespe IS a bomber pilot! 

-CH3
Logged
AJK
Group Captain
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,256


« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2011, 08:03:47 PM »

I understand the reasons, this mission is super simple.  The goal was to get us back to the "good ol days" everyone asked for [see other BN post] of group take off, formation flying and bombing.  I would ask that we all take off as a group for this mission and fly together for at least one good sortie. Too often lately we have had mini formations of 2-4 planes [basically the same lone wolf stuff we get on the regular server]. The majority has asked that we bring it back so lets give it a whirl.  Join up on TS and lets fly together. 

This TB-3 mission the bomber base is in F8.8 the target is F5.8. Load out is 28xFAB100.  Time to target at about 2k is about 12 minutes or so.  It is an area target so accuracy isnt important.  You could look out the cockpit and hand drop them and would still hit something...lol.  Like I mentioned this was one of the earliest missions we ran so it isnt complex. 

We will save getting a 500# in a pickle barrel for UP3.0 and the B-17 [cant wait]. For the more complex missions like that I will make sure there is a lot more detail. Also, I can navigate and get us there but it seems that you are much better at the targeting / bombsight stuff.  I vote tht you lead the flight on B-17 missions [precision bombing style] BN's in the future.  Since we built a lot of cool B-17 missions in UP20 there is a nice set to work from that allows us some planning time.   

See everyone Friday!
Logged

I needed that wing..
=K39=Cocoa
K39 Squadron
Group Captain
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 335


« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2011, 04:05:48 AM »

This is the kinda' preparation I like! Cheesy  Lets hold hands close in the formation and take off together and fun is guaranteed. If we go on an evasive trajectory...I am positive on that as the formation flying pleasure lasts longer and we all know that it's good....let 'em send out those scout planes and load up a lot of fuel and look for us.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 04:09:10 AM by =K39=Cocoa » Logged

"The harder they come the harder they fall..."
Wailwulf
Group Captain
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 568


« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2011, 04:07:44 AM »

Quote
If one is relying solely upon that, you could miss the target by as much as 200 meters.  Much more accurate to go by "throttle setting" to define your indicated/true airspeed.  Now, this might not be a big deal for those who just want to level bomb a city, but if you want to hit an oil refinery (and not the residential area next to it), accuracy is critical.  Same for hitting a bridge, or sinking a skinny destroyer from 5,000m. 

I just go along with the 8th Air Force, if I hit within a mile, I am on target.  Smiley


Quote
We will save getting a 500# in a pickle barrel for UP3.0 and the B-17 [cant wait]. For the more complex missions like that I will make sure there is a lot more detail. Also, I can navigate and get us there but it seems that you are much better at the targeting / bombsight stuff.  I vote tht you lead the flight on B-17 missions [precision bombing style] BN's in the future.  Since we built a lot of cool B-17 missions in UP20 there is a nice set to work from that allows us some planning time.   

B-17!  B-17!  That ain't a bomber, it's too pretty.  Let's get some B-24s out there, now they can carry a load and my Nose Art looks so much better on a Liberator.  Smiley
Logged

-Wailwulf

When in doubt, CHARGE!  Just ask the Light Brigade.
wespe
Squadron Leader
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 149



« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2011, 05:06:33 PM »

What an interesting bomb sight!
Just need to input altitude and true airspeed.  Simple, yet remarkably accurate.

Bombing data for tonight's mission:
Prokhorovka map: Air temperature at sea level: +15 degrees
TB-3_4M-34R,  Bomb Load: 28 x FAB100,  50% fuel,  Radiator: open.

Altitude         Throttle        True Speed       Ind Speed
1,000m             84%                185              175
                       87%                190              180
                       90%                195              185

1,500m             85%                185              170
                       88%                190              175
                       91%                195              180
 
2,000m             87%                185              168
                       90%                190              172
                       92%                195              175

2,500m             86%                180              160
                       89%                185              162
                       92%                190              168

3,000m             85%                175              150
                       88%               180               155
                       91%               185               160
                    Throttle         True Speed        Ind Speed


So, here's what we've got.  At each altitude I've listed three different throttle settings you can use to get the true airspeed number that you need to input into the bombing sight.  I've included the Indicated Air Speed number for those of you who like to stare at gauges.

Mission Notes:  The target city is 50m above sea level.  When entering your altitude data into the bomb sight, you might want to set your altitude number 50 meters lower to compensate for this.

Above 1,500m altitude you may want to adjust your elevator trim all the way up as this plane doesn't seem to want to hold it's altitude on level stabilizer and will start to drift downward.

Rudder trim doesn't seem to work on level stabilizer like in other bombers... so last minute course corrections need to be made OFF level stab.


Though I'm a BLUE bomber pilot, AJK...  I'll be flying red for this one.  I'll probably be at the rear of the formation, slightly higher... manning my defensive gun positions.

For those that also enjoy the challenge of gunnery, here's a sight picture of an incoming Bf109 at 200m to use as a distance reference.



Should be a lot of fun tonight!
 
Logged
OCA_Speed_Handle
Pilot Officer
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 18


« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2011, 07:21:44 PM »

Glad to have you on the red side Wespe:)  ~S!
Logged
Mabroc
Wing Commander
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 160



« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2011, 11:35:40 AM »

It was fun, crappy planes and all. I was flying seriously bad last night, sorry for all the rams, I sincerely apologize for all of them........the 5 of them  Embarrassed

 
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.15 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal